tv Charlie Rose WHUT June 22, 2010 9:00am-10:00am EDT
>> rose: welcome to our program. with president medvedev of russia coming to the united states to visit it is con valley and president obama in washington, we have a conversation this evening with about russia wind andre kostin, he's the c.e.o. of russia's second largest bank, v.t.b. >> the russian government is not trying to concentrate more power in the economy. the russian government accepts that they will not be in a position to manage this. so the focus is definitely on private enterprises and private investment and there's no party control on the economy in rush ha so i think goal of the government is quite large taking into account the historical development in russia. but russian government would like to have economy when the government will play a less and
less important role and see it as one of the important issues for fighting corruption, for example. >> rose: and from the world of film, one of my favorite actresses in the world, scotland's own tilda swinton talking about her new movie "i am love." >> i never set out to do most of the things that i've done and i'm doing. i certainly never set out to be an actor and i still find it embarrassing when i hear myself referred to as an actor. i expect people... real actors to stand up and protest. >> rose: (laughs) she's not one of us. >> she's a fraud. >> rose: do you feel that, actually. in any way do you feel like you're a fraud that someday somebody's going to catch up? >> that's why i'm trying to be so hard straight up honest about it and say "it was never my idea i should be described as an actor." >> rose: kostin and swinton next.
captioning sponsored by rose communications >> rose: andre kostin is here, the chairman and c.e.o. of v.t.b., russia's second largest bank. the russian state owns 85.5% of the company. in recent years they've moved into retail and investment banking, shifting away from his traditional focus on corporate lending. he's also expanding overseas. v.t.b.'s moves comes as a time when president dmitry medvedev talked about modernizing the russian economy and reducing its dependence on natural commodities. economics will also be high on
medvedev's agenda when he visits washington and the silicon valley later this week. i am pleased to have andre kostin at this table for the first time. welcome. you were just in st. petersburg for the meeting there. what came out of that meeting? >> well, it's the largest economic forum in russia and important that russian president mr. medvedev participated for a full two days meeting businessman, bankers from all around the world, meeting leaders of different other states, including mr. sarkozy. so normally during the forum there's some contract signed and this year it was contract signed for about five billion euro. but also discussions between different businessmen from all around the world about the future into over the world economy and many other things which... of concern for business and banking community. >> rose: what's the assessment of the future of the world economy? >> i think it's a cautious
optimism now. i think it's the general view that we are actually... we are entering the new period of time when there is... well, the crisis is over and so we are in the beginning of the economic growth, maybe not as quickly as we wanted. there's some, also, consequences or still what's happening in europe. but still we are in the beginning of the road to recovery and economic growth. >> rose: you think there will not be a con the age yoen from the greek debt crisis. >> it seems the package provided by by the e.u. is add cat and though the market maybe didn't accept it very good in the very beginning. i think a few weeks after the announcement of this package we see the stabilization of the market. we very much hope that unless there's some other bad news coming from europe, i hope that
the situation will stabilize. >> rose: and what do you make of china's announcement about perhaps letting its currency appreciate? >> well, i think it's important. i mean, the chinese currency definitely is a big debated issue. i think it's important if it can lead, for example, for larger domestic consumption, which is important for the world economy. and china as one of the major driving force in the economic recovery i think all these factors are quite important for the world. >> rose: what does russia's economic growth look like over the next year? >> i mean, this year we expect quite a sound economic growth of g.d.p. growing around 5%. it's important that the government manage to bring inflation down to 6%, which is a record low level of inflation. since 1990, or since the market
economy in russia. and i think it's a... reasonably good cautiously optimistic approach to russia for next year. i think russia will be develop ing. but if you ask me what russia needs to provide the stability for the longer term perspective, it's definitely modernization and introduction of the innovative economy and that's what the russian government is trying to introduce now. >> rose: and how will they introduce that? >> well, i think they are trying to introduce it both ways. one on spending more government money on this and secondly trying to provide more comfortable environment conditions for investors, including foreign investors. >> rose: it seems to me that's what mr. medvedev's message is to the west, certainly, and to asia as well. come to russia, invest in russia, we are creating a stable environment for your investment.
>> yup, yup. i think if you compare russia with the other countries, i think it's reasonably good area for investment and particularly investors might expect a higher margin as the russian assets are still undervalued and frankly speak with the president macroeconomic problems in europe i don't think that russia is losing competition from europe to this point of view. russia has quite a sound macroeconomics. the deficit of the russian budget this year will not probably exceed 4%. so basically all the macroeconomic figures are quite sound in russia and i think the legal framework for investors are improving, so i think it's quite attractive country for investment. >> rose: president medvedev is going to silicon valley. >> yes.
yes. i mean recently the president and the prime minister particularly are focused on this and they know there's area near moscow which... where the russian silicon valley will be built so it's very important for russia because russia cannot rely only on commodities if you want to be really stable and diversified economy. >> when you look at the enormous growth of the bank, how have you done it? >> well, one should understand the russian banking sector is still very... has a very low penetration of banking services. so definitely we were growing ahead of the market. we were making 100% growth annually. but in general the russian banking sector was growing
around 30%, 40%. so that's the country of quick growth of economic sector and it will continue to be so, i think for the next decades. of other hand, of course, i think we focused on the majorrer i can't say. we... in addition to our strong corporate business we edit retail which has great potential in russia because there's still very few people has credit cards, for example. and we two years ago when already crisis was in america and europe, we sought our investment banking and it was the surprise of many investment banks are doing very well everywhere and our bank during the first year of its existence made half a billion profits. net profits for the bank. >> rose: and what was the principle source of that revenue within the investment banking
function? was it mergers and acquisitions taking companies public or something else? >> it was advisory including m.n.a., there was trading as well and it was bringing russian companies to the world debt market. we are now leaders on euro bond issues for russian companies. so it's the full range of investment products we should provide. and we are competing but we're also partners with american banks like goldman sachs, like citibank like morgan stanley, j.p. morgan because normally for russian companies now it's quite normal to select one american bank and capital, for example, for doing i.p.o. or during euro bond issue. >> rose: and when you look at america and the discussion of making sure the deposit bearing insured banking function is separate from, as suggested by mr. volcker, from proprietary trading or hedge fund activities or venture capital or private equity, what do you say?
>> we don't have so big debate in russia. and actually we are... fortunately we are not viewed as some kind of evil russia and russian banking sector did not generate the problem for the rest of the economy. russian crisis started as we see it from the west when russia actually was cut off sources of funding and that's created liquidity problem in russia. and then the problem of russian banks came from what i call the real economy when our clients, particularly in the resource industry, they have... started to have problems in servicing in debt. so there's another big debate atish stphaou russia and a very few banks, probably we are the exception, which is diversified banking activity. but we do support, actually, the
general trend of creating more transparency and to have better supervision over banking activity. but, of course i'm concerned this relation should be streaked in order to limit the bank to provide proper services for the clients. >> rose: and what role does the state play in your banking active any. >> well, at the moment the government, of course, plays a very important role in the russian banking sector because two leading banks, they are primarily state-owned. in principle, ideologically the government stated not once that it wants to sell the stakes in the bank and we expect the further priority saeugs of two leading banks in russia from the point of view of the everyday management. government is not intervening and we, for example, is listed in the exchange, we are acting completely according to the rule
s should do. we are reporting to our investors, we are as transparent as any other list of companies so there's no big difference between other companies which exist in russia. >> rose: talk to us about russia today and where it's going. >> russia is always the country between europe and asia and i'm talking that partly explains why any crisis, financial crisis effects russia whether it's... coming from the east or coming from the west. but i think russia definitely wants to be modern, civilized democratic society on the other hand one should accept that russia will be different from other european countries because it is a country half of which is in asia and half in europe.
>> rose: but how will it be different? >> well, i think if you take the history of russia, if you have the experience of a totalitarian regime for 90 years you should accept that the traditional period, 20 years since the changes in russia, it still needs some time. so you can't make 100% measure russia with the same measurement in the west. >> rose: but what's the difference? i realize you're saying there's a difference. what you what is the difference of how russia will operate in the future and how western europe operates? >> well, it seems that russia is looking for western standards. >> rose: of transparency, of responsibility? >> yeah, but maybe still on the other hand, for example the social aspect of any activity is quite important because for many years the russian population
relied on the support of the state and it expects probably that the state will provide the support. so basically russia suspects the key values of western society like democracy or market economy. and i think it's very important. and russia is moving in that direction. but some time we are criticized for probably different standard of democracy which i don't think is really the case. it's just saying russia is coming to the similar democratic values going its own way. >> rose: what would you change about russia today if you were the president of or the prime minister? >> well, i'm a very big fan of mr. putin and mr. medvedev. i think the policy which they started, mr. putin started ten years ago, was vital for russia, for russian unity, for russia
becoming modern country. sometimes it's criticized being maybe too authoritarian. >> rose: yes. >> which i don't think that's okay. i think that's probably answering your previous question. russia is a huge country and of course that should be a strict rules, it should be proper management of the country. you know, sometime when you're on the far east of russia you notice that people are visiting china every year while coming to moscow once in ten years because it's a 12 hour flight to beijing and ten-hour fight to moscow. so i think the prao *ef i don't say policy was before mr. putin was quite dangerous. >> rose: because of his history and background and working... >> and possibly of the disintegration of russia and the role of oligarchs in the society which was very dangerous, i think. now i think it's very important
that business, big business as well, has a good condition to develop in russia. on the oh hand, business is not affecting the politics at the moment, it's separated from politics and russian political structure is i think quite strong and allows to manage the country all through kalin grad to far east. >> rose: there are those who say that the united states and others missed an opportunity to do more from the time of the collapse of the wall and the collapse of the soviet union to today. >> well, i think what is done is done. i think what's more important probably that russian leadership enjoys a very good relationship with mr. obama now. and mr. obama... >> rose: and mr. medvedev seem to have... >> yes, the same age approximately. and i think we're going to see a lot of potential for catching up with opportunities not only in
politics but also in economic relationship as well. >> rose: trade and... >> trade, financial relationship definitely. i think the american economy is the largest economy in the world. it's very important for russia. >> rose: there is also this: the impression of mr. medvedev. in the beginning it was the sense that he was the appointee almost of the prime minister because he'd been the previous president and he was the all-powerful figure in russia. he seems to be emerging on his own. characterize him for us. >> well, i think both mr. putin and mr. medvedev are quite sincere when they were talking about their plans for 2012 when they talk about their relation ship they are really on very good terms for many years and they're really now separated , their responsibilities. mr. medvedev is, as the
president, responsible for... primary lay for such things as international politics, policy, defense and so on and so forth. and mr. putin is very much focused on the economy. he's traveling nearly everyday to different parts of russia meeting businessmen, meeting people in the factories. so he's really very much involved in the government activity. so i think it's a good separation of responsibilities and activity. but they both said that the issue of 2012 is not decided yet. who will run and i think that's... they're telling the truth. >> rose: if you were a betting man, where would you put your money? >> (laughs) . >> you know, as a businessman i always have to have a diversified portfolio. >> rose: (laughs) thinking of the future and economic models around the world, whether it's china or russia or brazil or other
places, european social modeled, david brooks recently wrote the world is divided between general camps between democratic america and state capitalism, china. he said on the one side are the people on the united states to denmark to japan, people in this camp generally believe that businesses are there to create wealth and raise living standards while tko *fts are there to regulate when necessary and enforce a level playing field. both government officials like president obama and the private sector workers like the b.p. executives fell neatly into this camp. on the other side are those that reject democratic capitalism believing it leads to chaos, bubbles, exploitations and crashes instead they embrace state capitalism. people in this camp run russia, china, saudi arabia, iran, venezuela and many other countries. tell me what you think of... >> well, i think, of course, there's a lot of differences between china, russia and venezuela. >> rose: exactly. good point. yes. >> i would say that the russian government, actually, from if you take the approach to the
economy is very liberal minded. if you look at russia, like, for example, any capital movement for a number of years already has a convertible currency runnable. on the other hand just recently russian government announced plans for further privatization. i can tell you from my own experience of meeting both mr. putin and mr. medvedev that the fact that the government increased its role during the crisis in the economy was not something that they really wanted. so basically ideologically the russian government is not trying to concentrate more power in the economy. the russian government accepts that they will not be in a position to manage this so the focus is on private enterprise and private investment. and there's no party control on
the economy in russia. so i think the role of the government is still quite large taking into account the historical development in russia. but russian government would like to have economy when the government will play less and less important role. and see it as one of the important issues for fighting corruption, for example. >> rose: do most russians today understand what they have been through since the fall of the wall and the collapse of t soviet union believe they're better off because that happened and better off because the future intoer will bring a better life to them? >> i think so. i think it's a new generation already. we don't know how much it was. for example, i spoke recently with a friend of mine, a former president of poland who said that when his daughter asks father what did you do to your
country, he answered i made that every person can freely travel to any other country and she said what's so important? how could it be different. so probably we have a new generation of people who just do not realize that it can be different from what we have today. the russian people enjoy all the major rides of traveling abroad, having access to any information they like. so i mean it's completely different world. so i think of course there's some economic difficulties. but first of all population is better off anyway and secondly, of course, that's a different country. >> rose: it's a different country. >> i think maybe people appreciate this. >> >> rose: and in terms of you can see in the terms of the authoritarianism, coercion of journalists, i eke'm speaking of murder of journalists.
>> but man on the street, for him it's important that he has a basic right and he also has good employment, for example. i think that there's a... access to any information in russia you have. so i think russia enjoys a... russian public enjoys all the major freedoms, including the freedom of press. >> rose: how do you see the american economy? it is the largest economy in the world today. clearly by 2050 china will have the largest economy in the world, if not sooner. what does that mean for the united states? >> well, definitely we will accept that the world in ten, 20 years will be different and the role of the big countries will be much more important. >> rose: the brick countries? brazil, russia. >> russia would be like to part of this. >> rose: india, china. >> there were some talks during the crisis when russia lost a
percent of g.d.p. that russia would be no longer part of the brick process. but i think that's a little premature to say that. but, of course, china with its huge population and with immense economic growth definitely viewed as one of the leading powers of the economy many the future. i think what's important, russia wants to have a good relation with both america and china. russia doesn't want to play any card, american card or chinese card against each other. and i think they're quite serious about this. the relationship for w china is very important for us. we're neighboring countries. but on the other hand, relationship with united states is also vital. that's why the president is visiting america now and why... we see improvement relationship with america is absolutely necessary. >> rose: and it's happening. >> and it's happening. very much so. >> rose: there was a document
recently leaked saying the basis of russia's foreign policy is going to be the creation of a world where there's no friends or enemies, only interests in places of confrontation with georgia and threats from nato and u.s. missile defense plans is a new emphasis on integrating russia's economy and culture with neighbors like the e.u. and china. >> but probably what we now proved that is the competition probably for some certain region s. for example, ukraine. i think they shouldn't be... ukraine shouldn't be the area for competition between the west and russia. definitely russia has a vested interest in the ukraine. there's a lot of russians lived in the ukraine. very closed nation. and it's important for russia to have relationship with other neighbors, including georgia. by the way, my bank has a subsidiary in georgia all through this difficult period of
time and enjoy quite a good business there so i think there's a lot we need in common. >> rose: so good relationship with the president of georgia? >> we don't have a good relationship with georgia but the bank is operating without necessarily political approval of this so i have no relationship with the president of georgia. but i i'm not a politician and i don't need to. >> rose: you know a lot of people on the international stage. >> so i think russia definitely has a first area of interest in the what they call post-soviet area when we have vest interest in where there's turmoil and political infighting. so i think the west should recognize the concern of russia because neighboring countries. but on the other hand, i agree that russia... i mean wants to be part of the international
community and have a good relationship with the west as well as east. our relationship with india is quite important. vietnam, the relationship between vietnam and russia is now growing. i think that's quite a reasonable approach but it's right no specific political or military interests mainly economically because russia understands unless it's a power ful economic power, it's difficult to play important political role here or there. >> rose: it's a pleasure to meet you. thank you for coming. you speak well to this sort of new russia and the fact that we all live a new multipolar world in which there are shifting powers and people are looking for economic relationships rather than any other kind of domination. >> thank you. >> rose: thank you. >> rose: tilda swinton is
here. in 2008 she won an academy award for best supporting actress for her role as an imploding corporate lawyer in "michael clayton." with her magnetic ethereal charisma and striking androgynous looks, she has perhaps become most famous for her screen interpretations of cold an enigmatic characters. her performs are subtle, varied and unique. here's a look at some of her work. ♪ ♪ >> nothing thicker than a knife's blade separates melancholy from happiness. >> why are you sad? >> because... because i can't bear this happiness to end. susan, we would really like to
option this. >> you want to make it into a movie? >> into a movie. >> (laughs) oh, god. (laughs) that's really. .. >> how does that sound? >> that's very exciting. >> good. >> it's just comical. i hadn't thought about it. i've never written a screenplay before. >> oh, don't worry about, that we have screen writers to write the screenplay. >> you're here because he turned you in. for sweeties. take him upstairs. >> this is a $3 billion class action lawsuit. in the morning, i have to call my board, i have to tell them that the architect of our entire defense has been arrested for running naked in a snowstorm chasing the plaintiffs through a parking lot. >> i understand.
does this threaten you? >> no, you and me we're rock solid. it's just i think that's why we can afford to be big. we can think about ozzie and whether we give him a chance to get himself together a bit before you hampster hell out of him. >> is that how you see me? hammering him? >> of course not. >> that was your word. i don't hammer! >> of course not. >> your hands are so coarse. i can feel the wind in your cheek. >> rose: in her new film "i am love," she plays emma recchi, married into a milanese family. the "los angeles times" called the film ambitious and amazingly accomplished. here's a trailer for this film.
>> the world is growing and it has to be changed. all one has to do is alter one's way of viewing it. >> emma! >> rose: i am pleased to have tilda swinton back at this table. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. >> rose: nice to see you. >> very nice to see you. >> rose: tell me about this movie. >> well, this movie is a sort of dream a seasonsy of luca guard, the director's, and mine and it took us 11 years to dare ourselves to make it, basically. we sat around each other's kitchen tables and drank various bottles of wine and sort of had
fairy stories about the kind of lush films that we could make and... >> rose: underline "lush." >> yeah, lush. superlush, emotional and classical and romantic and tragic and melodramatic and all of that. >> rose: but you wanted to make a film that was lush and had a look and a feel and a sense of... >> we noticed that there's a way of ridicule organize being rude about modern films now which is to call them emotional or beautiful. you know how often you hear someone say "what did you think about that?" "oh, that was bit beautiful." >> rose: (laughs). >> especially idea of a film being sensational or operatic and, of course, we have the great john adams providing with us amazing score in the film. so we just want to make a film like they don't make anymore. >> rose: tell the story so everybody will know this. >> it's a story set in a family
kind of a very haute bourgeois family in milan. an industrial dynasty. >> rose: textiles. >> textiles, exactly. made their money during the fascist era so they've got a lot to be discreet about, if you know what i mean. >> rose: i do. >> and they have the father of the family, he maries emma who he goes to moscow... >> rose: that would be you. >> would be me. he goes to moscow and find her. he's collecting beautiful russian things and he finds her. brings her home. she's... i think of her as an avatar. she learns how to talk the talk, walk the walk. as she says in the women film "when i came to milan, i ceased to be russian." and she dresses like you have to dress. >> rose: and i began to be patrician. >> and i began to be patrician. exactly. and she runs the ship. and the household is-- as those big houses tend to be-- like a ship. she has three children. she's obviously a very loving and very dedicated mother and wife and i would say at the
beginning of the tpupl she's happy. this is not the story of a desperate housewife. >> rose: and why not? >> and why not. she's not suppressed or repressed or n any way. she's a content and very successful matriarch. and then her children are reaching that age children reach and they start to move away and she does that thing that mothers do at this point which is look at herself and wopbder who she is and what she wants and she notices that believe it or not she might have changed, too. >> she's changed because time has passed and her children are grown and everybody sells in evolution and why shouldn't she be? >> why shouldn't she maybe she's been change all the time or this revolution breaks in. wewe had an idea about making te revolution of love. >> rose: there there are and it's a moment because he is announcing who's going to succeed. >> the grandfather, the patriarch, who announces in a
sort of king leer gesture who is going to take on the business when he dies, which he does in short order soon after this birthday lunch and he does this rather interesting thing of leading it to his son and his grandson. on the tkpwropbdz that he says it will take two men to place him. the fantastic show of ego. >> rose: and that includes your husband and son? >> that includes my husband and my eldest son who introduces me to a young swhoef has just beaten anymore a boat race who is a friend of his who becomes his best friend with whom i slowly begin the love affair of my life. >> rose: the first time you've been truly... >> i think there's that sense that this is something band new. this is really a turn of the wheel for her that she's going
into something she's never been in before. i have the sense she married very young and coming from a scenario she was not only russian but soviet russian because the film is set ten years ago. so when she came from russia it was sort of late '70s early '80s and she was from one circumscribed life, the daughter of an art restorer into this extraordinary sir circumscribede of being this matriarch of this great family. and you get the sense she's lived the life for people all the way. and her pal lat kind of wakes up, literally. >> rose: you and luca came together because he wanted you to narrate. >> there's a fantasy about this. there's a rumor aboard. >> rose: separate from truth from fiction. >> it was announced in the "new york times" that i had thrown his let interthe bin and i didn't. i just didn't answer it. >> rose: he wrote you a letter asking... >> asking me to narrate a short film he wanted to make based on
william borough's penny peep show arcade and i never answered it because i was a little snow blind at the time. and then maybe 18 months later and i met him and we talked about it and i asked him how the film had gone and he threw this great blackmail on me and said "i didn't make it because you never replied." so we did it. did the voiceover. we haven't made the film yet. there's still time for that as well. >> rose: so what came out of this meeting was... >> it was super friendship, very important friendship and sort of playmate ship where great playmates and as you can see we dare each other to fantasize about the cinema we might make. >> so you created this as the film that you wanted to make, all of this. the story, the character, you're the producer, he's the director. >> there are a number of producers, great producers but we are a bunch of pals who made it with paper and string it's a
film about rich people but it's a very little film. >> and it took 11 years to make. >> well, 11 years partly because 11 years ago none of us had any kind of film making reputation. it's obviously an ambitious film we needed to make in terms of the money needed to raise for it. and we needed to dream it up properly, flesh it out, write several drafts of the script and we worked alongside other screen writers for those years. but the wonderful thing about making this film over this length of time is that once you're in a situation like i am happily today sitting talking to you about it you realize every one of those 11 years was well spent and that maybe in the tenth year some actor became the right age to play a part or you discover the house where you're going to set the film or whatever. maybe somebody wins an oscar. >> rose: so maybe you'll be producing something 11 years from now? >> give me 22. >> rose: this is a scene we're going to see much talked about.
>> rose: now, you had advice from a great chef from milan, a two star michelin... >> we had two but should have seven as far as i'm concerned. the great carlo krakow who not only advised us but provided the food and there's an important moment when i first meet antonio when he's making this russian salad which he's... one of carlo krakow's signature dishes which is russian salad in two communion wafers of sugar which
he's beyond not every film has food designed by carlo. >> rose: mame is what age? >> 45. >> rose: tell me what she feels inside? >> there's something which you very much see in that scene about communication. i think she's been very lonely for a very long time and very unmet and i think there's something about really good cooking-- and you'll know this, charlie, having heard your stories of recent gastro no, ma'am i can experiences you've had-- that really great cooking, a really great chef as a great artist is dealing in a kind of dialogue. is dealing in language and a way of really touching people. and when you were awake to that kind of work whether it's art of any kind or whether it's food, i think it is a form of company and she recognizes this. there's something about... she basically falls in love with him
through the food. >> rose: she falls in love with something she's never felt before. >> rose: i think she falls in love with nature. i think what he represents her is nature. not only in that he is... she's been living if so long in the this aura of industrially fueled wealth, we were very clear about the fact that you walk around... the camera moves around this extraordinary, as we called it, half palace half museum half prison of their amazing villa. >> rose: this villa is a carkner this play as well. >> it is and very important scenario that kind of makes people behave the way they do. we intercut scenes of scenes ofe factory to underscore the fact that this money is industrial money. everything is kind of factory made. but when she meets antonio, she's dealing with someone who works with his hands and works in an aura of real natural
beauty and it's got nothing to do with being superrich. >> rose: and just managing money. tell me you and your style. >> what style? >> rose: you march to a different drummer. you are unique. if i said tilda swinton to people, they would sense and feel somebody who's different. >> rose: >> but everybody's different, aren't they? >> rose: but you fashioned yourself different in a most attractive way. >> i don't feel i fashion myself at all. >> rose: in other words, you just became. >> i think people do what they can to... to... everyone's doing their best. maybe i have a lower pain threshold than a lot of people. >> rose: a lower pain for... >> i'm not a very good liar, for example. and i'm also very spoiled and very blessed. and for example... >> rose: spoiled by... >> spoiled by experience. spoiled by finding myself early
on in my life in very good company, in my working life in particular, in very good company. realizing that it's possible to ... not only possible but for me to sort of work and be in really good company and being happy go hand in hand. so i, for example, would find it very difficult to work in circumstances that i wasn't happy with. but i think everybody would like that experience. i'm just a very lucky one. >> rose: people have said you look androgynous. you would say where does that come from? what would you say? >> well, i would take you to my family's home and show you the paintings on the wall and everybody looks like this! i got my father's hair cut. >> rose: yes! yes! (laughs). >> i don't have his mustache, but i'm pretty much... >> rose: but you would if you could. >> well, i'm trying. >> rose: (laughs) yes. >> i come from a planet where people look like this. >> rose: a planet. meaning scotland? >> swintonia. >> rose: that's a new planet for me. >> it's an old one for us. >> rose: so you were f you
were looking from outside at your career, what would you see as the narrative? >> someone who's making it up as they go along and someone who's not conscious of having a career. i mean i honestly never set out to have a career. i set out to have a life-- which i have. and i never set out to do most of the things that i've done and i'm doing. i certainly never set out to be an actor and i still find it embarrassing when i hear myself referred to as an actor. i expect real actors to stand up and protest. >> rose: (laughs) she's not one of us. >> she's a fraud. >> rose: do you feel that actually? in any way do you feel like you're a fraud and that someday somebody's going to catch up to the pact? >> well, that's why i'm trying so hard to be straight up honest about it and say "it was never my idea i should be described as an actor." i'm an it model which is how i feel. >> rose: do you really. >> that's how i started out. >> rose: you feel you're an
artist model. >> i am, real threuplt first film i made with derek who i worked with for fine years, seven films, was playing an art itself's model. >> rose: did you live together. >> we lived in a kind guard within a whole ragamuffin band of their do wells, as i still do. >> rose: oh, yes, you do. but you care nothing about convention. >> i feel really conventional. >> rose: do you really? >> yes! i'm offended that you should think i'm not. what conventions are you talking about? >> rose: any! any! >> i had it presented to me early on as an early adult that it was possible. >> rose: possible? >> to live your own life. that it's yours. surely everybody knows this, don't they? >> rose: no, they don't. i think it's one of the most important lessons you can possibly have. >> i think they do. >> rose: do you think most people do live their own life?
>> i think everybody knows it and sometime there is' too much noise to hear it. that's all. and i just live in a very quiet place where i have nobody but my own ears to hear. >> rose: in scotland. >> yeah. >> rose: you choose to do that because it's what? >> because it's home. it's... i'm scottish. >> rose: well, i know that. but you could live in london. >> but as i say, i'm a bad liar. if i were to live in london-- as i did for many years-- >> rose: i know. >> i was never really fully at ease. i always felt a bit like an exile. scotland's really where i kind of understand the way the grass grows. >> rose: look back from now. would you do anything different or is that what life is about? just finding your way. >> rose: how would you unname? i don't know. there are only a few sense of that i have a sense of humor failure around. one of them is that i... i... i do wish i hadn't gone to boarding school. i think it wasn't necessarily a
good idea. mainly because when i was there they didn't give us any music. that was one of the things that i really mind. but apart from that... >> rose: everything's just fine. >> well, you know. >> rose: yeah, i do. this. >> there's no point. >> rose: (laughs) . >> rose: all right. this is now a scene from nice, france, where emma spots antonio and secretly follows him through the streets. scenes some people say hitchcock inspired. >> well her hairdo which is hitchcock inspired, of course. >> rose: roll tape. here it is.
>> rose: now, that's pure hitchcock. the whole walk, the music, the sound, the drama. >> there was something very risky about that scene, which was that we conceived the scene, we shot it to a piece of muse that i can we didn't have the rights to before we made it which was john adams extraordinary loll la pa lose saa. >> rose: so you hired john adams? >> you don't hire him, you go with your heart on a velvet cushion and go please, please. he's extremely gracious. >> rose: our film is at stake, please, mr. adams. >> our film has taken terrible liberties. >> rose: without you it would be nothing. >> without you it's us and a box set of mahler. and he came forward and said yes. we're so grateful. >> rose: you also have this
sense of liking or somehow finding your place in glamour, fashion. you do. what's that about? >> it's about partnerships and friendships and whipping things up in groups, really. i don't think if i had friends who made beautiful things and sometimes made them for me if i would ever go out in public, frankly. i'm only ever prepared to go out in public if someone has made something nice for me to put on. i'm very shy really. >> rose: what about what? >> you know, i had three brothers and they were constantly teasing me so i learned very early on to stay out of the limelight. >> rose: does this movie have a theirive? >> yeah. this movie is a fairy story. this is a fairy story. it's a big old fantasy and it's a melodrama which means it's playing with all sorts of very
old-fashioned ideas. you have the good mother and you have the prison world and you have the lover on a charging steed. i mean, it is a fairy story and there's a magic potion even in the prawns. >> rose: yes. >> it's a big old fantasy. it's not a documentary. >> rose: of course not. but does it have a linear narrative? >> yes. i think it has a linear narrative. it's a tragedy also. >> rose: what's the tragedy? >> >> well, i can't tell you but something sad happens, charlie. >> rose: i know that. but i never know what you can tell. >> but you can tell from the opening credits something sad is going to happen. i think that's what happens when you start to watch a film like this. you know-- and this is why we put these beautiful douglas cirque inspired titles on the front of the film, you know that you're going into the rell -plg of melodrama. you're going into a sort of narrative that's going to churn you up at some level and you want that.
as alfred hitchcock always said, there's nothing people like more than a good cry. >> in terms of the craft of acting, who's influenced you the most? >> the craft of acting is not something i really know about. but i think the essence of performance. everybody from buster keaton to delphine serig to carol lombard to patti smith, david bowie. >> rose: you could play david bowie. >> i would love to play david bowie. i'm playing david bowie right now. >> rose: (laughs) i know you are. did i see orlando is going to be premiered at moma? >> in cinemas near you. will you come? i think you should come. >> rose: the film is called "i am love". thank you for joining us. see you next time.